Signal vs. Noise: France at night. ⇒
8 November 2005, early afternoon
A more or less racist piece of shit post on the riots in France from one of the ignorant American's at 37 Signals. The comments are pretty "good" as well.
This is a post from my link log: If you click the title of this post you will be taken the web page I am discussing.
I think my head is going to explode reading this thread.
by ramanan on November 8 2005, 4:49 pm #
Wow! Is that your first time having an argument in a comment section before? It was a very interesting to read.
by Krishna on November 8 2005, 6:15 pm #
I try not to argue about politics anymore. There isn’t much point. You usually won’t change anyones mind.
The people in that thread were particularly ignorant, and you shouldn’t let stuff like that stand. I’m somewhat surprised the author of the post hasn’t commented. It’s an embarrassing post to say the least, and the people that are coming to his defense don’t sound like the sort of people you want to align your company with.
I can’t make shit like this up.
by ramanan on November 8 2005, 6:22 pm #
Yeah, I read some of the stuff and some people just won’t listen.
by Nelson on November 8 2005, 6:28 pm #
Kill the infidels.
by rishi on November 8 2005, 7:40 pm #
Could you care to explain how Jason’s points are racist?
And btw it’s ignorant American not ignorant American’s. Mind the apostrophes.
by Sunny on November 8 2005, 8:07 pm #
I gave my opinions in the thread a couple times. You can read my opinion there. I may be overly sensitive. I don’t feel like having the same discussion here.
by ramanan on November 8 2005, 9:01 pm #
You surely don’t have to. Good thing about that thread (I guess the only one): I found your blog.
And btw it’s ignorant Americans, not ignorant American. So much for the apostrophes.
by Wolfgang on November 8 2005, 10:12 pm #
That thread is an embarrassment. That’s quite the sampling of the less-is-more-web-2.0-is-the-bomb crowd. The sheer number of ignorant people that read 37signals was surprising. I had expected a completely different response to that post. It sounds like Jason did as well. I’m sure he wasn’t expecting the burn-the-muslims crowd to be such a strong part of his vocal readership.
Glad you like the site.
by ramanan on November 8 2005, 10:41 pm #
From another perspective, how about the British, Australian or even Indian citizens who want a separate law (Sharia for instance) instead of the rule of the land? I think their Jason’s comments would be valid. But I recognize that it is not the point Jason is making as you said in the thread. But I still think its not racist but misguided.
BTW, thanks Wolfgang.
by Sunny on November 8 2005, 10:44 pm #
I guess another question that needs to be asked is why do people migrate? Is it because they seek a better life, more freedom? Or is it because they cannot integrate well in the own country? If they are outsiders in their own country, they are probably more likely to be insular in their chosen land as well. What can we as a society do to assimilate them? Especially when they are not interested at all and bent on creating their own little “home”? And how do you stop the locals from leaving like it is happening in France and Netherlands? Tough questions without any easy answers.
The problem in a nutshell in France is that rampant racism and xenophobia in the society has created an apparition of a “problem”. The people expect the government to fix this “problem”, realising little that they are the ones who need to change.
by Sunny on November 8 2005, 11:00 pm #
Sunny, with respect to your first comment, that’s a totally different issue, and it’s not even what Jason was discussing.
With respect to your second comment, from living in Canada, I know for a fact you don’t need to assimilate anyone. All you need to do is treat everyone with a little respect. Assimilation suggests that the place you live and the society you live in is perfection itself. Canada benefits from its diversity. I don’t agree with much at all of Suadi culture, but I am not so arrogant as to think it is entirely bad. It is up to all of us to learn from the good, and discourage the bad. I am sure there are immigrants here who feel weak ties to this country, but I think for the most part, people who move here are proud to live here, and proud to be Canadian.
by ramanan on November 8 2005, 11:11 pm #
I think assimilate is probably a strong word. What I mean is that they should see themselves as Canadians and Australians. And this doesn’t mean that their own culture is deficient or their beliefs are wrong. Its about believing in shared values as an united society.
Your experience in Canada is echoed by mine in the US and Australia. But you have to keep in mind that what people may say publicly is not always echoed in their private lives.
You are right. Most people get it; some don’t. All we can hope is the more do so than don’t. As you say, its hard to change people.
by Sunny on November 8 2005, 11:39 pm #
What bothers me about living in Canada is – why do white people keep to themselves so much? They tend to be quite insular, living among other white people, eating at white people restaurants and shopping at white people malls. They have created their own little “homes” that they don’t seem willing to break out of.
In fact, when non white people move into the neighbourhood and mix it up a bit they inevitably move elsewhere. Often these white people live in Canada their whole lives and never learn the other official language, or even Chinese or Tamil. I mean, if you are going to live in a multicultural country, shouldn’t you make some kind of effort to integrate and assimilate with others? How is it possible to have a united country with shared values if these white people aren’t willing to make an effort? Why do they stay in this country if that is their attitude?
Aaah… I kid, I kid. But seriously, it’s not all about immigrants mooching off the west and being all selfish and unwilling to adapt.
by Mahi on November 9 2005, 1:36 am #