Who's engaged? Not me! Tiff's guide to the wedding guest's code of honour. ⇒
5 March 2007, mid-morning
This is a post from my link log: If you click the title of this post you will be taken the web page I am discussing.
5 March 2007, mid-morning
This is a post from my link log: If you click the title of this post you will be taken the web page I am discussing.
Hmm…$68 dollars eh? That seems kinda strange. I know I give more then that for people’s birthdays. For non-immediate family its usually $500, and then for good friends probably $250 to $500 just to be token about it. Anything less is an insult, it’s a marriage for god sakes. I know when I go to Italian weddings, at least one house is usually given by one of the parents / grandparents. We gave a house at my sisters wedding, and her in-law who got married just after also got a house from the Italian side.
by Victor on March 5 2007, 11:11 am #
an insult? At what point did weddings become a giant accounting ledger?
I’m not really sure I understand this. I fully agree with giving gifts at weddings, as a token of congratulations and celebration. But to say “it’s a marriage for god’s sakes”, I don’t really see what that means? I’m happy for people, and wish them all the best in their lives, but at what point does my bank balance or the number I write on a check equate with my feelings of goodwill?
by Dinu on March 5 2007, 12:28 pm #
I thought Tiff’s post was cute. There is a lot of baggage associated with weddings nowadays. Like Dinu, I find it distasteful to expect anything from your guests: they’re your guests after all. I think its poor planning to expect your guests to get you out of debt with respect to your wedding. Victor is right though that in some cultures it is impolite not to be coughing up cash money at a wedding. If you go to a typical Italian wedding you’re supposed to be giving the bride and groom a bunch of money. The weddings are usually ridiculous. It’s a cultural norm to give a generous gift at the wedding.
I don’t think that rule translates to all cultures though. At a Tamil wedding you don’t really have any expectations placed on you. My aunt got a Bible from someone at her wedding. A fucking Bible. It was a Hindu ceremony.
by ramanan on March 5 2007, 1:32 pm #
Who got a bible?! And people give away houses as wedding gifts!?
by Krishna on March 5 2007, 4:05 pm #
I agree with you ramanan. I believe that if you invite people to your wedding, it’s to celebrate a union, not to cash in.
When my husband and I got married, we told people to come…no gifts expected. Some brought small tokens and we were grateful that they did…traditionally, my family gives money…but privately, and quietly.
We saw it as an opportunity for our friends to share the day with us. Demands for “monetary gifts preferred” is gauche,and tacky…but I’m seeing it more and more often on invitations.
by Radmila on March 5 2007, 10:29 pm #
The only stories I’ve heard of people giving away houses are about subdevelopment builders up in woodbridge and stuff like that, where they put demands on the home builders to make an extra house or two that won’t be sold as part of the normal development. I can hardly imagine that’s the norm, but I get Ram’s point about Italian weddings. We’ve all seen the Godfather. I mean, I can possibly accept that as normative in that culture, but to extend to a social obligation for everyone is a bit absurd.
And damn right Tamil weddings are cheap, mostly because we’re all relatively poor. But that has no bearing on the joy felt at a couple’s union.
by Dinu on March 6 2007, 5:53 am #
Victor, you are totally invited to our wedding! :P
Having been to less than three weddings my whole life I don’t have much to go by, but I don’t really except any of my friends to cash over money, specially since most of them are still students and will be students for a long time coming. Being Persian and all, I bet that goes against all our customs, we probably expect a house too.. I’ll ask my parents what my expectations should be from my guests! ha ha.
I think Tiff should now write about the number of guests you should have at a wedding and then I’d have a little something to say about that!
by sh!ma on March 6 2007, 8:46 am #
Just wanted to jump in on the cash talk…
It’s not just Italian weddings where cash is assumed – it’s pretty much most of the Balkan nations. There is an unspoken minimum amount from each person, and anything less is generally considered an insult. (Balkan people are easily offended and it carries on through generations, etc)
Anyway, I’m not saying I defend this, but it’s what I grew up with so I understand the mentality behind it. It’s considered a community thing – I helped your children out, now you help my children out.
by stacy on March 6 2007, 10:17 am #
I can see where some of the posters are coming from, especially where many people of our generation may wish to move away from what is seen as a wealth/elitist culture.
However, from my “circle” of Chinese people and from the Italian’s that are my in-laws, I would certainly say that no one would openly support a no-gifts / token gifts policy.
One thing is it’s an insult to both parties. To the guest you are insinuating that they are poor and or ungenerous. This is similar to the grimaces Chinese people will make when no one attempts to pay / fight over the bill. Even though I was born here, I am still a little bemused when people start splitting the bill (less so after it has happened a few times, or everyone is only an acquaintance).
You should consider how it looks to the other side. When people all insist on going dutch or are themselves “insulted” or embarrassed when one person pays, it makes you wonder about a few things. 1. Are they cheap? 2. Do they think of you as only an acquaintances? 3. Are they saying that they have no respect for my money, or in other words give me no face?
Because not giving face is more complex then it sounds. If you give me no face that means you don’t respect me, and you want to be my “equal” at all times, i.e. you are being prideful and rebellious. These are not seen as virtues. O
Ostentatious independence/arrogance is worse then ostentatious wealth to some (me included at many times).
by Victor on March 6 2007, 3:35 pm #
aha why are all the comments here and not on my blog?
i must say that what i posted on is based on my extremely biased account of the chinese weddings i have been involved in…namely my sister’s…many tears were shed involving the fight over who to invite.
to put things in perspective, my sister knew about 20% of the people who were there, the ohter 80 are honoured guests of the parents. needless to say, i think this is the bargain that’s part of the deal in getting married within the chinese culture – a wedding is not a celebration of the union of two individuals – it’s a celebration of the parents perceived power and wealth through lavish and utterly wasteful spending by throwing an extravagant reception. In return, there is the unspoken expectation that guests are to contribute back to cover the expense to show some worthiness…
to those who are not bound to these unspoken rules – kudos to you! If only it was that simple for the rest of us…
by tiff on March 6 2007, 4:24 pm #
Victor, I don’t think i’ve heard the word face come up that many times since I last saw Young and Dangerous. Kick ass.
by ramanan on March 6 2007, 5:23 pm #
I think perhaps I just don’t understand the concept of giving face, but why is my wanting to be treated as your equal prideful or rebellious?
(I’m using personal pronouns for ease of understanding here, not for any kind of personal attack, of course).
I mean, wouldn’t it be just as reasonable for me to call you prideful for not considering me an equal?
by Dinu on March 7 2007, 12:42 am #
Dinu you are not wrong, and your perspective does make sense.
However, from the culture I was raised in and I somewhat agree with, it’s seen the way I described.
I think the advantages are different kinds of bonding and trust.
I had written a bunch more on elders, and other related things, but it was rambling on so I deleted it.
by Victor on March 7 2007, 1:59 pm #